More Than Ambition

61. Let's talk about ADHD as a Christian

• Dusty Hegge • Season 1 • Episode 61

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0:00 | 49:38

I'm (Dusty Hegge) joined by ADHD coach, Christian Craig, to talk all things ADHD! This is a topic so very near and dear to me, as an ADHDer myself who really believes in beauty and power of self-discipline, the importance of seeking to live an obedient and joyful life - I find the that dialogue in the online space around ADHD tends to lean toward one of two extremes, but usually the truth tends to lie somewhere in the middle. So, in this episode, Christian and I talk about ADHD through a more holistic and grounded lens! It's such a fun conversation.

WE TALK ABOUT:

  • Our identity as Christian ADHDers (p.s. It's still found in Christ)
  • Unique challenges Christian ADHDers tend to face
  • Practical ways to manage and treat ADHD more holistically


CHRISTIAN'S LINKS
Scattered Sheep Collective (An online community for ADHD Christians)
YouTube

DUSTY'S LINKS:

Website: https://dustyhegge.com


Get Your Free Action Planner: The free work planner uniquely designed for the inconsistent coach, author, or leader who’s ready to take persistent action. HERE

SPEAKER_03

Hello and welcome to Voice Mammoths from Dusty. And can I be honest right out of the gate? I think I'm gonna switch this podcast thing back to more than ambition. I have been like really thinking about it, and it's not even bad. So if you're new around here, Voice Memos started as a private podcast and then I made it public. And since making it public, I've had like hesitations about it. I'm still not confident it was the right decision. I love that I get to share this with more listeners, especially like in keeping with like my goal this year is to grow the metrics. It is expansion, it is to grow in the listeners, to grow, you know, my email list and all really good reasons strategically. Um and I feel really confident about that choice. However, the title more than ambition doesn't really help me accomplish that goal. Um sorry, the title of Voice Memos for Destiny doesn't really help me accomplish that goal. If you search voice memos, a thousand different things comes up on any search engine ever. Whether it's Google, whether it's Pinterest, whether it's Spotify at a podcast, that word is used a lot. There's like no, there's not a lot of uniqueness, which is for a private podcast for freebie for a list builder. It's not for something that is public where the goal is growth. I need something more catchy, something unique. And more than ambition is a podcast that I has a separate feed right now. Um but it is not anywhere else. It's not anything else that I can find. Like it would be my name. I could kind of capitalize in on that and potentially trademark that. Um and especially looking down the pipeline, wanting to write a book, like I would love to be able to use that as the title or something within the title. And you know, there's like a lot of nuance that maybe that happens, maybe it doesn't, because that's actually publisher. But any in any case, right now this is VoiceMemo's podcast. Next episode is probably gonna be more than ambition. And then what I'm going to do is make these solo shows. Well, this one is not a solo show. I actually have an incredible guest today. I'm so excited to introduce you to him in just a moment. We're gonna talk about ADHD, we're gonna talk about mental health, we're gonna talk about what God has to say about ADHD, or maybe more so, like how we can continue to see God as an ADHD here. And in any case, next week it's gonna be more than and I will do voice memos of like will be what I will call I think the solutions, or I might go back to a private podcast feed. That stuff's still up in the air. I'm still kind of thinking it through. So if you have thoughts on it, I would really love your input because I really loved hosting a private podcast. Like I think it was a really, really fun place for me to do just off the cuff, a little update. They were shorter episodes, they were really easy to just kind of pump out. There wasn't a need for a lot of show notes, there wasn't a need for video or for links, or like it was very simple and fun. And I felt like I had a deeper connection with you guys in some ways. Um not in every way. But anyways, that's like a little peek behind my brain. But for now, I want to take a second to introduce uh my guest today. His name is Christian Craig, and he is I hesitate to say ADHD expert, but for sure an ADHD coach, and he works with um Christians who have ADHD but want to live a really beautiful, fulfilling, um, wonderful life that's in alignment with God's will. And so when I saw his content, I kind of stopped him for a while, as one does on the interwebs. And I just noticed how much of an overlap there is about the way that he talks and teaches and encourages and disciples men and women with ADHD and the way that I do. Um, and so for me, he felt like very much a no-brainer to bring on the show. It was such a joy to talk to him. We actually recorded this episode months and months ago, but there was a ton of audio issues, and so it took me way longer to edit and get it together than I had anticipated. Um and so this is uh an episode we recorded quite a while back, but it is full of a lot of encouragement, full of a lot of really practical ways to kind of understand ADHD, whether you are an ADHDer or you're just not jest, but or maybe you're in a place where you just feel scared. I can't stop saying jest, I don't want to belittle it, but I don't really know have another way to I'm not sure how exactly how to articulate what I'm trying to say. Whether you're a person with ADHD or you're in a season of life that feels really scattered, or you have another sort of disorder or mental illness, maybe that is making it really hard for you to focus, that you're not feeling quite like yourself in any way, or maybe none of those things are true for you, and and you're in a very healthy season of life and you feel very neurotypical, but you want to understand somebody and love somebody in your life who might be experiencing those things. This episode is for you. It's fun, it's candid, it's honest, it's raw. Audio issues aside, the content is really, really good. And I did my best to make it sound and look as beautiful as I can because this content really deserves because what Christian shares with us is really, really beneficial and such a deep blessing. And and I truly, truly enjoyed uh my conversation with him. So without further ado, let's dive right on in. Okay, it's time. I'm so excited. Okay, bye. Well, not bye. You're about to listen to Christian. Okay. Let's go. That was an awkward transition. What where are you?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I'm in New York. Okay. So afternoon for you, huh? Afternoon, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Nice. Cool. Well, as we get started, do you want to just sort of introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about the work that you do?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, of course. So I am a Christian content creator. I make content basically all about mental health and ADHD. So my goal is to get people's minds back onto Christ and to, especially with people who are struggling mentally and struggling with ADHD. One of the part of the main work I do is I work with Christians who are struggling with their ADHD, Christians who, a lot of a lot of high-achieving Christians who feel like their calling is really big, but ADHD is this blockade that's preventing them from getting there. And I just come in with biblical um principles to help them manage their ADHD.

SPEAKER_03

That's awesome. What brought you into that work?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so originally it started with my own struggle with um ADHD. Um, so about four years ago, I pretty much hit rock bottom with it. So I felt like um ADC was like a curse. And it got to the point, and it was slowly over time, I was kind of hiding it from God. And it got to a point where I actually yelled at God. I was like, I feel like you gave me a brain that's in that's incapable of pursuing you. Like the one of the main things I actually want to do, I feel like I can't do because of the brain you gave me. So in that moment, I felt God really meet me there. Like he was waiting for me to be like, like, okay, just give it up.

SPEAKER_00

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And my my my prayer was really simple. It was like, Lord, help me to glorify you with my ADHD, and I left it in his hands completely. Um and slowly over time, I saw how my my management of ADHD was more than just like strategies and tips and packs and things like that, but also changed into understanding how it affected my spiritual walk and affecting how I saw God and how I understood myself and my identity. And over time, I'm like, I started just slowly making content, posting a tip here and there. And now came to the point where it's like I'm like the Christian ADHD guy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, that's so cool. I what's interesting to me is I when I was first diagnosed with ADHD, which was later in life, um, and I I was like, I don't know, there's like sort of a relief for at least I felt when I finally got a diagnosis of like, oh, I'm not just horrible at everything. There's like a reason why this is happening. And then there's kind of, I felt like in my experience was like there was a period of grief when I was like, it does feel like a relief to have a name for this, but also like it doesn't make it go away. You know, and there's a lot of work that has to be done to manage it and to grow and like heal your relationship with your brain, like you're saying. But something that I was really surprised about was how incredibly, I don't know, how big the impact was that it impacted my ability to have a deeper relationship with the Lord. For me, that really blew my mind because I like expected it to improve my relationship with my kids and myself and my husband and my friends and stuff or and my clients and things. But I don't know why I just didn't think about it until I was able to like dive deeper into Bible study and like I was like starting to see the fruits of like focus that I wasn't experiencing the same way before because I wasn't trying to like make myself focus in like the way that a neurotypical brain might focus. I was allowing myself to do it in a different format and seeing the benefits of that, it like it really blew me away. So I'm wondering like what shifted for you once you started, like once you like were diagnosed and were starting to treat it and kind of had surrendered that to the Lord. Like, what were the like next steps, I guess, for you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So for me, one of the one of the major things was the major theme was just surrender. The biggest thing is to surrender. And I know like it's like, okay, okay, well, what does that mean? Like, what do you actually do? Right. So for me, it was understanding that in my weakness, God was present and his his view of me didn't change from from whether it was a really good day or whether it was like a bad ADHD day. You know, because it it still happens. Like I teach this, and there's still days where I'm like, my brain is not, it's like it's a little bit more of a fight today, right? But it's but it's still okay. Like it's God, God is God's grace is still sufficient enough. So it started, so really, it was like really just taking a step back and thinking, okay, I'm going to approach everything that I'm struggling with now with curiosity. I'm going to I'm going to think about, okay, what why am I doing this thing in this particular way? Just I'm just really questioning everything I do and thinking, wait, do I have to do it in this particular way? I remember some of the things I one of the stories I I use um a lot is like my old job. I was a manager, you know, it was a restaurant, and people would say like I was kind of look a little crazy with how I worked. And because I would have a watch and then I would have like little pieces of paper with each of the things I need to get done on the watch. Sometimes I'll post it over my arm. I would have like random things. I would like do random things. I would like take a water bottle, put it upside down in a random corner, and like I'm like, people are like, what's going on here? And I'm like, I realized for such a long time I was forcing myself to do things in this particular way. And it was and because I was just saying, okay, this is the way to do it, rather than saying, oh, that's a way to do it, I never allowed my brain, allowed myself to be like, okay, this is just a way. Let me try and find my way. Right. And then then from there, I was like, okay, wait, this can even apply to my spiritual life, like how I read the Bible and how I pray and how I worship and how I praise, like all these different things, how I serve, all these different things. I'm like realizing, like, wait, I'm thinking I'm I can't be a good Christian because I'm thinking there's just a way to do it, a way to present it, to do these things that God has called us to do, rather than thinking, okay, there there are multiple ways to do it. Let me just find the one that works for me and works for the way that God guides me my brain.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. So I guess what are like some of those ways? Like if I'm a person who's like, I'm in a place where I'm ready to like experiment and kind of see what works for me. I guess what are some like tips that you might give them or some direction you might give them of like a way to start to sort of figure that out for themselves?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So one of the things I actually tell people a lot, the clients I work with, is to take a look back at your childhood. And the reason I say that is because often when we're kids, we regulate, we self-regulate pretty well. It's just that it's just that we, it's just that by time we get into school and the parents and everything like that, we get so like everything gets more structured. It's like, no, this is the way to do it. And this is you're what you're doing is wrong. And then that's when we start feeling a lot more dysregulated, where we have a lot less freedom to explore how our brains naturally work, explore how we naturally move. So for me, I had to take a step back and think, okay, what how did I do this? I don't remember struggling with this as much as it like when I was like four or five. How did I do this when I was like four or five? And approaching that, approaching with that childlike curiosity where where you're willing to be like, okay, I'm gonna do things in a very weird way. And honestly, doing that for even getting to that point requires you giving yourself permission to do things in a weird way and understanding that it's okay. Like I say all the time, like to my clients, even I'm like, I had a I was talking to a client um last week, and I said, like, there are times I I'll like do something really looks really weird. I'll stand on my bed while I'm while I'm making my to-do list. Why? Because it gives me a little bit of dopamine, it's a little more exciting, it's different, and it just my it gets it's just different, right? So then that that helps my the my brain, right? Helps the ADHD. So I say just small things, and it because oftentimes when I have a new client, they'll think it's like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give them this completely, I'm gonna change their life completely upside down. I wanna, you know, everything's gonna be completely different, rewired, right? But I say oftentimes it's really just small changes like here and there that you really need. So, so again, so giving yourself permission to do things in a weird way. Then then approaching that thing with curiosity, whatever that thing is, and then taking a step back and allowing yourself to fail and then retry again, knowing that's typical.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I love that. And what I'm hearing is is like there's an element, and which is something that I like teach and sort of preach and talk about a lot with my clients about is like allowing yourself to with discernment and with wisdom, but like follow the fun and like infuse more play into your day-to-day life. Because, and this is true, I would say, of everybody, but especially for the ADHD yeah, like if it's if it's boring, we're gonna struggle. Like, and so there's so many ways that we can be creative and infuse play into it, like standing on your bed while you're write your to-do list or listening to music really loud or letting yourself get some work emails done while you're on a walk outside. I think that that's really, really a very practical way that we can kind of like infuse a little bit of fun into that. I think that that's that that's really cool. As you've done that, are there like other sort of things that you've done? As you've had a more curious mind about like why is this working and and what does this do for me as far as like productivity or my relationship with the Lord, or just like working in a neurotypical world with a not neurotypical brain? I guess how has that changed your sort of view on like your relationships with your friends and your family and like how you've navigated into your day-to-day life? Like what has that unleashed and opened up for you is I guess the bulk of that question.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um, so that's that's a great question. I once I got a handle on my ADHD and started doing those things I mentioned earlier, my relationships could change completely. Like, absolutely. It did like a 180. And one of the ways it I it did that was I realized that because I needed to change how I approach things with myself, I also needed to change how I approach relationships. And that required a lot of communication. That required me saying, like, hey, like I if I if you're telling me something, if you're if you're confiding in me about something and then I relate it back to myself, it's not because I'm trying to like make it all about my me. I'm just trying to say I get it. And this is like this is the way I show empathy, right? Small things, which is a very common thing with like um with ADHD. Or if it's or small things like I'm like, I'll like I'll like put a reminder hey, check up to on this person, like check up on this friend. Because sometimes with ADHD, you can have a lot of out of sight, out of mind. And giving myself permission to be like, okay, just because I need that reminder doesn't mean I care about this person any less. It's just the fact that this is the way my brain is wired, and this is a way of me meeting, meeting myself where I'm at, and then moving forward. It's it's still stewarding that relationship really well, right? It's all part of stewarding the relationship. Because even in a neurotypical, the two neurotypical people, right, whether whether it's a romantic or um friendship or what it or parental and whatever kind of relationship it is, it's going to take time and effort and work to steward that relationship, understanding yourself and understanding the other person and willing to have willing to approach it with grace. Actually, even in the book I'm writing, I have a whole section talking about like relationships and saying like how like you need to, it's a communication is the is the foundation of it, but also love, approaching from a biblical perspective.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm. I love that. I think that that's really, really cool. Something that I'll do that's like a practical thing is a lot of times I'll remember to check in on a friend or reach out and ask how their day is doing, or like say happy birthday, or you know, whatever. Or even if it's like an advent thing, I'm like checking in to see if we're still gonna, you know, go out to dinner the night before. Typically I remember at like weird times of day when like I don't really have the time to like invest in the conversation and the follow-up, or it's like really late at night and I just I like I don't want to be texting somebody at like midnight when I suddenly remember, I'll schedule the text. Like I'll type it out and you can schedule texts like within your whatever phone you're using. And that has helped me a lot because then if I get like a reminder, oh, it's so-and-so's birthday, or we have an event coming up, I can schedule a text to like check in, you know, when I want it to go out so it's not going out at like midnight or the random time of the day when I remember to check in, you know. It's helped me a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Right. The things like that are really powerful. Like something else I'll do is um when it comes to like something more practical, is I will have a notes app. I'll have a note um in my notes app, I'll have a note just for I call it like a basic mind dump kind of thing where it's like whatever random thing I pops up in my mind, I put it there. So then I know, okay, right now I'm right now I'm heading into an appointment. I'm like, oh shoot, I need to email this person about this very important thing. I'm like, I can't do that right now, so I'm gonna type in a quick note, um, say a quick note on my phone. So then I know to then I know to come back to that thing later. So when I'm a con, I'm like, okay, is there anything I needed to do? Wait, I can go back to that note, so it's it's less stuff going on up here, which is we both know it's gonna be a lot. So I don't have to worry, it's not the added stress of okay, I need to remember this thing, and then already work with the poor short um memory.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. And that's really, really smart because it's it is like that for the ADHD. We tend to remember those important tasks when we're doing a different important task, and then it draws our focus and we end up like ping-ponging around.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03

But something simple as that has really offered me a lot of support.

SPEAKER_01

Right, right, right. It's it's it's it's really funny because I said, like it's it's always it's usually the smallest of things that can really just change your life completely. And like every time I every time I work with a client, I'm a new client, it's typically like it's typically me looking at their life, taking a step back, asking a lot of questions, getting a good view and idea of what their idea today is like. And a lot of the times it's me removing things. I'm like, okay, let's take this out, let's remove this out, let's tweak this, tweak that, tweak that, and then like that'll do that'll do a complete 180 in how they're managing their ADHD, how they're approaching their kids, how they're able to, you know, um show up in their their marriage or in their in their business, right? So or in the ministry, so which is which is really powerful and it it gives it gives a lot of encouragement because approaching managing AHD can be really intimidating. It's like, okay, my entire life I've been trying to do this thing in this particular way, nothing's working. I feel like my life is falling apart. Okay, now I know I have the I have AHD. You mentioned like the grief of it, like how many things like how could have I how I could have been better in certain areas if I just knew, right? If I just had that support, that help. If someone would have noticed earlier, right? Because I was also um I was diagnosed when I was um 21.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So it's like that thing of like how much better could I have done in high school, whatever. So when you when you when you just when you approach it from that angle, it makes it a lot less like stressful because you're saying, okay, it's not I don't have to, you know, do a complete 180 with everything in my life. I just have to make the 12 tweaks that will do the 180 in itself.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think that's such a good point. And to like add to that, I noticed after two things, I guess I have to say in response to that. The first is that I noticed, like as I look back on my own life, like how much I was already doing to manage my ADHD that I didn't realize was like seven extra steps that I do that the other average person, like my husband, who's for sure does not have ADHD, he doesn't have to do this giant routine to get out the door to remember his keys and his phone and you know, and all the things. I have this very big system. And if like we're out to now, like if I'm like we're on a vacation and I'm like not in the house at night or like when we leave the door, I have to like give my important things to Brian and be like, I know I'm gonna forget. I don't have my key spot, I don't have my like the thing where everything goes. And so I know to ask now for more support. So I'm not locking our hotel key like in our room yet. So I have a backup plan. And I think it's been really helpful for me to like look back on what I have done up to this point and say, like, wow, actually, I have done a lot more to manage my ADHD and to kind of support myself than I had even thought imaginable. And to me, that felt very like comforting, I think, because like, oh yeah, like Aren't going how I want them to, especially up till I was diagnosed and was able to make some big changes. But being able to see, like, yeah, it wasn't going how I wanted in full, but like I got a lot right. And I think taking the time to acknowledge that, because I once heard somebody describe ADHD as like micro bursts of shame throughout the day. And I was like, oof, I'll resonate with that. And it wasn't until I started to learn, which kind of brings me to part two of what I wanted to say was that until I started to learn like the science behind ADHD and learn about a nervous system and learn about like how an ADHD brain works in comparison to a neurotypical brain, was I able to really like manage it in a way that I felt was a lot more effective than sort of the beautiful but haphazard systems I had created for myself. And so I'm wondering like, where is a good place that you point maybe your clients to or you can point our listeners to, like to start to learn about ADHD so that they can be equipped to seek out a diagnosis or get more practical support by being armed with some information? Because I find that not everybody really understands what ADHD actually is. And because of that, there's so much like misconception about what that looks like in a person's life or even what's possible to support ourselves or to support those around us who might have ADHD in a way that's like effective and good and isn't riddled with shame and guilt.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Right. That's a good question. So yeah, I think uh especially with online with social media, social media can be a blessing and a curse when it comes to ADHD. Um so it's being mindful of where you're getting your sources from. So one of the things I I always recommend, or I, you know, I I would I would give to other people is to not see it as okay, just ADHD. Because ADHD affects every area of your life, even our spiritual life, right? So I would say to narrow in on what you're actually struggling with and to start there. Because what a lot of the times is that everything, every problem's interconnected. And once you learn a skill in one area, you can apply that skill into a different area. So for example, yeah, I was I was like working with a client um a couple months ago. She was um, she's a creative director. And one of the things she was working on, she was struggling with, was finishing this project she had going on. And and I was just working her, um, it was like a week-intensive thing we were doing. And with that, with the thing that we she actually did get the project done by the end of the week, but she learned skills that she could apply to other areas of her life beyond just okay, just finishing this project, which is like my main goal of like with because when I'm working with someone, I don't want to just say, okay, this if you want to do this thing, just this is what you can do. Yeah, I can do that. We can hop on for like 15 minutes. I can just give you a quick um summary of what to do. But my goal is to get you to the point where you can be like, okay, I work with Christian with with this particular thing, but I remember this particular skill. Now I can apply it with my marriage. I can apply it with, you know, with me trying to get out of the house or me trying to stay focused during work. Right. So small things like like really focusing more on the skills, right? Um, so when it comes to like sources, um, one of the places I love is psychology today. I love psychology today so much because it has like it has a lot of resources that are um from different from different people from psychologists, like um psychiatrists, therapists, oh they and they even from and then from there you can get into if you're a bit of a nerd like me, um, you can get into like the studies and everything like that. Um but it just breaks it down like really simply where you don't have to you don't have to like say, okay, like I I need to start with like the peer research and everything like that. But you can look up, okay, I'm struggling with um I'm struggling with procrastination. How do I how do I deal with that with ADHD? And then you'll find articles that can break it down, that can explain it, so you're not so you're not just feeling like you're you're being thrown into the deep end of ADHD information because there is a lot.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you. That's really helpful. I'll put a link to that in the show notes too for people so people can kind of look that way. It's just easy for you to find. But psychology today is pretty easy to Google too.

SPEAKER_00

So Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03

And you have a a community group that you run, right? Can you tell us about that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so it's actually something I just um really excited about. It's something I just launched. Um it's called the Scatters Sheep Collective. So the main goal of it is not to just like overwhelm you with information or just, you know, but it's the main goal is to use community as a means to get to the point of you being able to reach a level of mastery with your ADHD. And under the community aspect is so incredibly important because yes, I yes, you can I can give you tips and things like that, but reality is that we all struggle, like every Christian with ADC is going to struggle. And um understanding that there are other people who struggle is really powerful, even in 1 Corinthians 10 13, where Paul says that Paul references how other how there are other brothers who are struggling with the temptations that they're wrestling with, right? And there's a reason he says that to encourage them. So we're not to not we're not in this alone. Because something I'll say to my clients, I'm like, okay, ADHD is very much a spiritual thing too. And the devil will try to use will use any and everything in order to distract you. So you know, or or in order to come against you. And whether it be and if it's it insecurities with ADHD, so be it, right? So under so leaning into that, leaning in that into that community, the power of community, right? So you see, this is like even the mechanism by which like God like encourages us and exhorts us and lifts us up. We can we can then um we can then see okay, even though I'm struggling, I'm not alone. And there are other people here who are here willing to help me. And that's the whole that's the whole goal and the main focus of the ADHD of the Scattersheet Collective, and of course, um growing closer to the Lord in the process.

SPEAKER_03

That's awesome. I really love the name, by the way. I think that's such a good name.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, I I was like, I was I remember like um on threads, I was like, okay, I need I was creating this community, give me some names, and like I saw like I got a lot of comments and I saw some here and there. I was like, okay, I think I I think I got it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's a great, it's a great name. I think it's so cool. I think it's so cool. What would you say to the person who's like, okay, like I'm hearing what you're saying, and I want to start to implement some of this stuff, but they feel like chronically behind and very overwhelmed by their to-do list or sort of it feels maybe like they're in too deep to ever get out. Like, what would you say to that person?

SPEAKER_01

My first thing is I would I would address the beliefs they have around productivity, the beliefs they have around work, or the beliefs they have around what they're able to do. And the reason starting there is because my mind goes to Matthew chapter 7, verses 24 through 27, where Jesus basically explains like two houses. The house that's built on sand, and and that, and that being house that's not built on Christ, and the house that's built on the rock, the rock being Christ, right? And how the elements come against like the rain and the wind, come against both of those houses, but one stands and one falls, and the one that stands is the one that's built on Christ. And to have a so meaning, and we know that we know from John John 14, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. So in order to have a strong foundation, in order to have anything that's built and that can stand the conditions and the what whatever is life throws at us, it has to be built on truth. So a lot of times, like that's a common thing with like people I work with where where it'll where there will be like where it'll be like, okay, I'm in too deep, and there's too much going on, where I'm like, okay, let's take a step back, understand that God's grace is sufficient enough for you. That God meets you where you're at. And it is possible for you to get out of this. Because a lot of times we get so caught up in like what's happening and like the chaos and how how behind we are that we forget that it is that we do have hope. That grave is empty, we have hope in every area of our life. Not just like with, oh, I'm redeemed from sin, but also the fact that like God's grace is sufficient enough at my job, my job. God's grace is efficient enough with me struggling to put away laundry. God's grace is sufficient enough with me and like having issues communicating in my marriage or in the ministry, whatever the thing is, God's grace is efficient enough. So it isn't, it isn't to it isn't to like say, like, okay, like what you're going through, what you're struggling with right now is invalid. Of course it is. But it's to, but it's to give it another perspective of saying, okay, I understand where you're at. God understands more importantly, understands where you're at. Now, let's take a step back and and understand that you aren't defined by this situation and that this it and that your current circumstances don't determine your future.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think that's good because you're really what you're doing is you're coming back to like their identity and what their identity is in Christ and reminding them of what's true about themselves and what's true about God. Because when we come back to that place of clinging to what's true, that's where like hope can really flourish much more freely.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I think that that's really, really I think I needed to hear that. I think that's very encouraging.

SPEAKER_01

It's it's it's really powerful because like even in my like the book I'm writing, I yeah, I approach I approach ma because there's other books with like about this countless books about managing ADHD. But the the I start off with identity. Before I I give you a strategy, a tip, uh, anything. I start off with identity. Because I find that with the people I talk to, my own, my with my own um wrestle with ADHD, my history with it, that a lot of it really does source your identity because you know when when you when when those when the winds come, the rain comes and the floods come, right? You're something that will be challenged is your identity, right? And that's rooted and that it's all connected to like who you are in Christ. And if you aren't rooted in that, if you aren't aware of that, then you're gonna be a lot easier for you to go to and fro with the wind, and which actually pretty can present even worse with um with your ADHD symptoms.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. That's really cool. I think that that's incredible. And I really, really I think that's why I really resonated when I saw you, your work, uh especially like as you're posting more on threads, because that's where I found you. And I think immediately I could see that priority for you. Immediately it comes through your work that that very gospel-rooted position that you're taking here to to start in identity. And how cool that you're writing a book. Can you tell us more about that? Like, is there a way that we can like sign up to hear about the book when it comes out? Like, give us all the details because I'm so interested.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. Um, yeah, so I can I can have a give you the link to a um that you can you can throw wherever in show notes or whatever um for the sign up. But um, yeah, so the book, it's funny. The book actually was supposed to be a seven-page devotional. Um, where I was like, okay, I'm gonna write a seven-page devotional. I felt it like on my spirit, like I think at the beginning of 2023. Um, felt it on my spirit because God telling me write something about being a Christian to ADHD. I was like, okay, cool. Um, seven-page devotional. I'll throw it up there on my website. Whoever wants to read it can read it. And as I finished, once I finished it within like the week, because it's only seven pages, I was like, hmm, I need to write. There's more that needs to be said here. So I was like, okay, it'll be a little bit of a longer devotional. And then so I wrote it and then I finished writing it, I was like, no, this isn't it. Like this, there's more here. And I was in prayer. I was like, no, this needs to be a book. So um, so I went back and I started like, so I I I was in, I was talking to my community about it. So it's very, very I really feel like my community helped me write it, where it's like, okay, what are you guys struggling with? Where like very specific things. Yeah, so like I remember like certain comments, I'm like, oh, there's this person struggling with this. Let me write a section about that, or you know, tying different things in. And um, like I mentioned earlier, the main my main thing I go in with the with the book is to really completely change how the person not only views how they approach ADHD, but how they view themselves and how the aim is to get for them to get closer to Christ. Because like I mentioned like before, other other books with ADHD, they they talk about like um strategies, tips, things like that, right? But if you don't have that foundation that's on Christ, if you don't have like a solid foundation of understanding that even if you have a day where you don't apply these strategies really well, you're still you're still good in the eyes of God, like you're still chosen and precious, right? Then then you're still Romans 5 says that we have peace with God. If you don't understand that, then the strategies aren't going to do you any good, right? And I, so that's the that's the that's the approach I take, where like you mentioned earlier, very gospel, very gospel rooted, and even mentioning certain other things that can affect the ADHD, um, from you know, mentions, mentions of like, you know, how important exercise is or protein or um or even even addressing the stigma with with um with with um ADHD in the church and you know and how that and relationships and how that can affect how well you approach ADHD and shame, right? So all these different aspects where it's not just like, okay, how do I how do I deal with procrastination? Yes, that's important, but what, but how do I also deal with the shame that comes with when I do procrastinate, even when I do know better?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. I love that. I'm so excited to read it. Yeah, that's really, really, really incredible. I think something that I teach a lot is this concept of intentionality and surrender. As believers, like we're called to this place of intentionality, which is stewardship and thoughtfulness and and building self-discipline, but it's undergirded by this huge piece that is surrender. So we can act in faithful obedience and and put our best foot forward, which God asks us to do. Like He encourages that in us. And effort is not bad in and of itself. Effort is really beautiful and worshipful and good.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_03

But and when we don't have that surrender piece right alongside, then it becomes a place of striving. Then it becomes a place of hustle harder, and I like to call it blind hustle because we're not really paying attention, we're just sort of frantically trying to accomplish everything. And for the ADHD, like that magnifies an already existing problem times a million, I feel like. Right. But this piece that's of surrender, I mean, that undergirds this intentionality, which is exactly what you're talking about, is like is resting in the goodness of God and resting in just his provision and resting in his sovereign grace. And it's such a big game changer to me. I it was last year or so I got to go on a writer's retreat to Edinburgh in Scotland.

SPEAKER_00

And that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03

A friend of mine felt really, really called and to go, yeah, it was so fun. I loved it. But a friend of mine got felt really called to go to this Catholic service and take mass. And she's not uh Catholic or wasn't at the time, anyways. And and I went with her just to be supportive and because, like, yes, I would love to go to church. It was during Easter too. And so I was like, I'm all in. That sounds great. I would really love to do this. And so I got to go and it was beautiful. But the service, we didn't know when we went. The service was like three hours, and the way it was written on their website made it seem like it was gonna be, it could be read to one of two ways. And we read it as, oh, this will be we'll be able to take communion and hear a sermon in the first 30 minutes to an hour or something, and then the there'd be a longer service if people chose. But it was actually the opposite was true. It was this very long service, and then the communion and the bulk of the sermon was towards the end. And I have ADHD. My friend does not. And I was so antsy, you weren't allowed to make a sound. It was so quiet, and it was beautiful, and it was, I'm so glad I got to be there. But I came to a point where I was like, and the whole point of the sermon was about stillness. And all I kept thinking in my brain was like, I can't be still. Like, I don't like I kept thinking to myself, like, okay, God, that's not fair that you have me here in this service that you're saying that I need to be still, but physically I can't stop moving my body and my brain. Like, I have to fiddle with something. I'm gonna go crazy. And it's this old, beautiful cathedral. So everything is made of stone. There are these metal chairs in the middle of the stone cathedral. So you make a, you barely move. And it was like sort of a sound, you know? So I was feeling so stressed. But and eventually I left early with a friend of mine who also came, and we were both kind of like, this was beautiful, but I don't feel the same sort of command to be here that you do. Christina, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna gracefully exit. But as I was leaving, God really reminded me that, like, yeah, maybe you can't be still in your body, and that's okay. But you can be still in the sense that you can rest in my stillness. Like I can borrow God's calm. I can take on his peace and his hope. And I might not be able to surrender fully because that's really hard to do. But I can trust that that's a muscle that God will help me to build to rest into his stillness and to allow him to fill in that gap for me. Because where I am weak, God is really strong. And that to me was such a transformative experience because I didn't really need to be there for the full service. And that's okay. Yet God still like met me there with that little bit of faithful obedience, that little bit of like an outreach of being like, okay, God, I really want to take communion and I really want to worship you this morning. And even though I wasn't there for the th full three hours, God still blessed me richly through that experience. And I feel like there's so much like parallels with what exactly what you were talking about in that experience, in the importance of like intentionality and surrender for everybody, but all the more for this specific application of being a Christian with ADHD.

SPEAKER_01

Right, right, 100%. I really like how you mentioned the um like the the the same not having the same conviction to stay. And I really feel like that's like that's God's grace acting right there. Yeah. You need to understand like something I I like to encourage my community with all the time. And it's something so simple, but it's something that I needed something different times and I still need to remember myself up. Is that God already knows I have ADHD. And because he knows I have ADHD, he's going to, he's going to be mindful of that and his expectations and in what he's calling me to do. Like he's it's not, it's not like he's like, okay, you know, you need to pray for 30 minutes straight in this particular way. Otherwise, I'm just gonna throw your prayer in the garbage, right? Like, even if you look at in Matthew chapter 6, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like we see how, we see how we see how our father prayer is very short. And I've that's something I find really interesting, like how short it is. And and how Jesus even mentions prior to that how we aren't heard for in many words. So I think sometimes we get so caught up in this like idea of like okay, like I need to, I need to present in this particular way, I need to say this really long prayer, and and pray for every person in the world, and you know, do everything in this particular way. We get so caught up in this, like, in this, we're in this trap of thinking, okay, this is how we get closer to Christ, this is how we get closer to God without understanding, like, wait, God's already here. God's already, like, there's nothing more I can do to earn the love of God. There's nothing I can't earn the love of God, right? So there's nothing more I can do to Yeah, yeah. In order to have more of Him, right? It's just a matter of me just orienting myself towards Him. And that doesn't have to look like how this person does it. Like if I see it on social media all the time where if someone will post something about like their prayer closet, they'll say, like, oh, I was in my prayer closet for two hours. God bless you, I can't do that. So it's more of it's more of a more thing of being like, you know, it's like it's like I I can't, I simply can't pray for two hours like that and and be in my prayer closet because I'm going to get antsy and frustrated and then my mind's gonna be everywhere everywhere except being in prayer, right? So I so like when it comes to things like that, when it comes to like prayer or you know, even sitting in service, if you have to get up a couple of times, like if during a service, like I know I do it at church all the time. I there's times I'm like, I just I feel like there's fire in my legs, I need to move. So I get up, I go use the bathroom, I'll maybe like I'll just like stand up a little bit, or you know, small things like that, and understanding how God's like God, God, God isn't like, what are you doing? Like, what's what's going on here? He's like, wait, I understand, I get it, you know, and my grace is still sufficient enough for you. Um, my mind goes to Psalm 139, how David writes how how he's how God is acquainted with all of our ways. And there's so there's so much, there's such an encouragement there with knowing, like, okay, this small little thing that I do in order to try to like meet God, God is aware of it, God knows it, and he still loves me, he still died for me, right? So just being aware of that. God already knows you have PhD. God already knows everything about you, and he still died for you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and if anything, too, I would see like those efforts to stay engaged with like in like communion, basically, like to stay communally engaged with the Lord. Right. If anything, I see those efforts of getting up and walking around. For me, I bring a notebook because if I can write notes or even then, like we talked about earlier, like when you're doing something important, then ADHD brain is typically remembering, oh, I have this other important thing to do too. If I bring a notebook, I can write it down and then flip back over and focus on the thing, or I can doodle and I'm still actively able to listen if I'm like using my hands in some way. But I see all of those as really extensions of worship. It's me putting effort out to say, like, in the same way that like when we put a reminder in our phone to text a friend or to check up on a client or whatever, like it's it's a way that we're being really intentional to protect and steward our relationship with the Lord. And I think that's really, really beautiful and changing our mindset in that way of like, yeah, I have to do extra steps to stay in this space of communion with God for a while and to really engage in worship, but it's not any more or less worshipful.

SPEAKER_01

Right, right, 100%. Like, like when you mentioned worship, that that's that's the perfect way to describe it. Like my mind goes to um Romans 12, where it says to present my body as a living sacrifice, right? So, like, okay, how can I present my body's living as a living sacrifice and a scope of ADHD? So, like you said, like there's the small things that like if you have to do this, Differently, you have to do that differently. That's okay. And you know, it's all part of you stewarding your mind well, you stewarding the things that God is giving you well, whether it be like your mind, your finances, your your body, right? Everything that you have, do it, giving it on to the Lord and doing your best in the um in the strength that God's giving you to offer back up to God.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's so incredible. And such a good perspective shift as a of way to take some really intentional steps forward. I'm curious, just kind of pivoting the conversation a little bit. Something I like to ask my guests is what's something that's bringing you a lot of joy right now? Like it can be a small thing, a big thing, anything in between. But what's something that's just making you happy?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um right now, it's actually poetry. Yeah. I've been loving getting back into poetry. Yeah, it's it's it's really great. Like I because with everything going on with like me with me starting this um Scattered Sheep Collective and with me writing my book and like doing other things like here and there, like ministry, things outside of like what I already do with my church. I'm like, I feel like like this call of God pulling me into myth of pulling me back into writing poetry seems like a bit like I'm like, Lord, there's a lot going on right now. You know, you've called me to this stuff. So yeah. So I'm like, you know what's going on. So I was like, okay, let me be obedient. Let me get back into poetry. And I realized how that poetry was such a such a powerful outlet for me to get that creativity going. And it actually has helped me in every every other other every other area of my life. I was actually talking to a client about it recently where I was saying, like, how like I was like, yeah, like, you know, have fun. Like, don't like everything's about like, oh, I need to do everything really well with the ADHD, whatever. Like, I said, like, for me, it's poetry. Like, when I write poetry, uh, it's me, it's me just having fun, like almost like weaving with words, and like I like, I was like, really the other day on my whiteboard, I had my music, like my headphones on, I had my music on, and I was just like matt blueprinting like all like my my poem, my poems, and I was like, oh yeah, this is like fun to me. Like I just like making like little connections here and there and doing wordplay, and like this is like really fun, and that's something I can look forward to. And um yeah, it this it is really does bring me a lot of it does bring me a lot of joy. It makes me feel also closer to God I'm doing it, because I'm like, this is me stewarding what this creativity God's giving me. It's not all about like work or all about like ministry or you know, all these different things, like it's just like a time where just me and God where I can just write and I can just have fun while I'm doing it. And there's no expectation, there's no like I need to meet this standard or do this or do that. It's just me, the pen and the paper, it's just like a time of release, honestly.

SPEAKER_03

That's awesome. Yeah. Play is so important, and something that God's really challenged me with, especially in the last six months, but it's been ongoing for a while, is just that like God calls us to hobbies as much as he calls us to work into relationships. There's really no greater or lesser value in all of these different things we get to partake in, and God invites us. But really, if we're like coming down to like what calling is, it sounds hyper spiritual and special and whatever. And in some ways it might be, but but really it's an invitation to step into something. It's an invitation to grow closer to the Lord and to to play and to experience worshipfulness and experience the Lord. And so I think that's so cool. I think that's so cool. I've been recently coming back into painting. I started painting when I was like a kid. I love creating like fine art and crafts and stuff. And it's something I've just sort of paused for and didn't pursue for since I really had kids. So like 10 years, I just haven't really done it. Cause it's a big task to like bring everything out and then my kids are gonna want to paint and then I have to clean it all. It just all I could think about was like all of the like admin and task stuff that is was associated with it. But something in me, I realized like, well, wait a second. Like, I'm by doing that, by only focusing on all the quote unquote like boring bits of it, I'm like starving myself from all of the fun that can be had from it. Like, what if I tried to incorporate more fun and play in every little step of it? And how can I invite my kids to play in a way that still respects my space and allows me to enjoy the fun creative thing that I want to enjoy, but also allows them to explore a fun, creative thing that they might want to enjoy right beside me. So it's been really, really fun to pursue, which is why I love hearing like kind of play and fun my guests are pursuing. I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_03

So I'm gonna put links to everything in the show notes, but I'm wondering like how if you want to just tell people where are the best places for people to find you and kind of learn more from you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, of course. Um, so my website has pretty much everything that I'm working on, everything I'm doing. It's I am um Christian Craig.online. Um, I'm really active on threads. That's where you can really reach me, shoot me a damn, honestly, whatever. And um, I'll say my YouTube also. Cool. But um, those are those are main places where you'll definitely see me really active.

SPEAKER_03

Perfect. And I'll put links to everything in the show notes for you guys. But thank you so much for coming on, Christian. It was truly such a delight to talk to you. I'm really honored that you that you came.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you for having me. This was so much fun. I love this.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's awesome. It's really cool to be able to. I feel like that's something that I have been very blessed by threads. Like, say what you will about the landscape of social media. That's a whole separate conversation. But it's been cool to see other sort of platforms pop up that are encouraging a little bit more connection and more conversation. And it's been I love watching the way you utilize that platform and it's been encouraging to follow you.

SPEAKER_01

So thank you so much. That's that's such a pleasant to hear. Thank you. I really, I really love that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah.